It is a very bad idea to get rid of database view

Krishnanand Shenvi · November 2023

We database administrators use database view for imports, Exports, Global updates, Global adds, exports, queries. linking the database to power BI , config changes, add business rules. so we very much need the database view and need access.

Alex Wong · November 2023

@Krishnanand Shenvi
Putting things in perspective, RE is probably VERY long way from database view access removal.

Not sure what you may or may not have heard, but FE database view is slated to be removed (access) sometime next year, and that's pending ALL available functionalities on database view can be performed on webview.

For RE, as you mentioned, there are still A LOT of pieces that cannot be done on webview yet, so it's going to be a long time.

However, when the time comes that ALL availble functionalities can be done on webview, I would welcome it, considering how terrible the database view performance has been.

Austen Brown · November 2023

@Krishnanand Shenvi - Welcome to the BB Community forums! It will be an adjustment as features traditionally found in database view are migrated to web view. All this to say, while the move is happening it is not going to be to completed anytime soon. You can find comfort in that.

In the meantime, I encourage you to keep up to-date with the new feature releases in Web View and start learning that portion of the product now, if you haven't already.

Joe Moretti · November 2023

@Krishnanand Shenvi That sounds more like Blackbaud sales people. RE Database is not going away anytime soon or later for that matter. A sales person told me back in 2013 that is was going away and here it is 2023 and RE NXT is still barely functional for Database services. No need to worry about that, since many of us will be retired by the time that happens.

JoAnn Strommen · November 2023

@Joe Moretti LOL yes seems to be a common sales pitch. Sales person convinced IT guy at previous org that it was going away and they spent all the $$$ to get web view. This was around 2018 for them. They don't have gift officers or need much that web views adds. They just needed a solid program to track donors, gifts, etc.

Evan Webb · November 2023

Provided all those functions come to webview, I don't see a problem with getting rid of database view. I welcome it. The fact that I have to work between both systems is an extra complication. And it's harder for new users to learn the dual-labels for the same fields across database and web view.

Krishnanand Shenvi · November 2023

@Alex Wong
HI Alex I understand the database view performance is not upto standards, but it would be like jumping from frying pan to fire if the web view functionalities are much worse.

I have been working on database view since the last several years and yes there have been improvements as well as issues but I am able to get things done fast.

Joe Moretti · November 2023

@Evan Webb Of course no one wants to deal with two different systems, but the blame goes right on Blackbaud for churning out a product that was not fully functional and then dragging it out for over a decade. I have never seen a rolling out a product like Blackbaud has done with RE NXT. In comparison, it took 14 years to build the World Trade Towers in NYC and that included the proposals.

Catherine Chow · November 2023

@Krishnanand Shenvi
Agree for the most part here - it looks like it will take a long time before they can move all the admin functionalities over to webview. Having said that, I still prefer some areas to stay under DB view - particularly the global changes/imports and updates, and queries. I feel comfortable managing these areas in DB view preferably than webview which was designed mainly for the fundraisers and not admin.

Kevin Lill · May 20

@Krishnanand Shenvi Of all the things I have seen Blackbaud do over the years, this is by far the dumbest thing I've seen. The web view is slower and less intuitive IN EVERY WAY. Why take your industry-standard product that those of us have learned inside out and backwards for the past two decades and throw it in the trashcan? I have no problem adding functionality to NXT which has never been able to do enough, but I do not understand the drive behind destroying the product that put you on the map. I am very displeased with the push to remove database view and I hope it can be reconsidered.

Austen Brown · May 20

@Kevin Lill - Welcome to BB Community forums! I don't work for Blackbaud, so I cannot speak for them - but I'd imagine that there is a reason for making this change. If you are familiar with the Financial Edge product, that just went Web View only - Database View was turned off for FE recently. I anticipate that RE will progress along a similar timeline.

There was a email sent out this morning that contained a lot of great info. Recommend you review it in totality.

Kevin Lill · May 20

@Austen Brown Yeah, the reason being justifying the existence of their developers and the rising cost of their subscription model. Sunsetting the original product doesn't actually do that BTW - it just makes life difficult for already struggling nonprofits everywhere. I hope your consultant fees don't see a downward trend as organization's begin to realize the impact of this change.

Dariel Dixon · May 20

@Kevin Lill:
The web view is slower and less intuitive IN EVERY WAY.

I normally wouldn't do this, but I'm so curious. Why do you think this? I seen a lot of takes, but this one is…interesting. I think it's definitely faster and more intuitive to new users. And from the trainings I've done with new users, they agree. Have you had a different experience that makes you think it's slower and less intuitive?

Kevin Lill · May 20

@Dariel Dixon Every time you open a Query, it takes at least five times longer to load than the database view. Every time you open a tree to add new filters on the query, it takes the just about as long to load. All of this was faster and easier in database view and is NOT BETTER. At best it is the same.

Dariel Dixon · May 20

@Kevin Lill That is interesting. I can't say I've had the same experience. The complex queries actually run significantly faster in web view for me.

Alex Wong · May 21

@Kevin Lill
Same experience as Dariel. DBview is significantly slower compare to webview.

Alex Wong · May 21

@Kevin Lill:
Yeah, the reason being justifying the existence of their developers and the rising cost of their subscription model. Sunsetting the original product doesn't actually do that BTW - it just makes life difficult for already struggling nonprofits everywhere. I hope your consultant fees don't see a downward trend as organization's begin to realize the impact of this change.

I disagree with that statement.

While I do hear many who oppose the sunset of dbview, it is more b/c webview lacks specific functionalities that dbview offers that they had depended on for decades. That's a legit concerns and Blackbaud has made it pretty clear that they are not going to sunset what hasn't been brought over to webview.

webview already have many reasons over dbview:

speed and performance over dbview
better query option: specifically with “one of” operator, dbview allow only up to 500 per critiera, while webview allow up to 2000 (lost track of this number, as I use API, which allows for far more than 2000)
standard reports having better csv export option. Gone is the day where you export to excel in dbview and the columns are misaligned.
easy mobile access to constituent profile information for fundraiser on the go

this is to name a few.

I am not ignoring what still isn't good or not there yet in webview (particularly in gift batching on webview and gift editing, which is promised to be Q2-3 this year), but hinging on to a old/legacy dbview that isn't seeing any significant improvement (i.e. Terrible recurring gift manual process comes to mind quickly) won't do you or your org any good.

Embrace the change (or not and move to another CRM?)

Lydia Phelps · May 21

@Alex Wong That's incredible! How are you using API to do more than 2000?

Alex Wong · May 22

@Lydia Phelps
Query API allows me to do “one of” operator by providng an array of values. I have tried array of values up to 5000 and it still works perfectly. I have not try to hit an upper limit yet.

JoAnn Strommen · May 23

@Krishnanand Shenvi
While I would agree that web view may be more intuitive for new users, I do not find it to be faster in generating queries and such.

Yeah, the ‘one of’ up to 2000 is nice but I frequently have queries using that function are 5-10x that count. Honestly I don't feel I should have to using API's to work.

Ange Scott · May 27

@Kevin Lill
I agree, DB view is much faster when it comes to gift management for me. NXT always seems to sit on the green bouncy ball of doom for too long, whereas I can open the record in RE and do what I need to do before NXT has even finished loading.

I only use NXT for actions and attachments

Rose Dixon · May 27

@Alex Wong I am hearing lost of people having issues processing in web view with the bouncing green ball, even just last week. Doesn't sound like it's faster…at all. The ONLY things I can do fully in web view is add actions, notes, and tables/fields. I tried the queries I use for monthly audits, many couldn't be done - I got an error message empty fields - but were working as usual in database view. It is EXTREMELY difficult to try to learn an entirely new system (basically) when most of what we admins do still isn't available in web view, and it is frustrating, and frankly, insulting, when BB thinks we just have all the time in the world to do some work in web view and then bounce back to database view.

Rose Dixon · May 27

@Alex Wong That is not what I have been hearing. I heard the web view often has the bouncing green ball slowing people down.

Rose Dixon · May 27

@Joe Moretti Exactly. We converted 15 years ago and have been dealing with this. I did audits last week testing out the queries, and quite a few of my queries gave me errors in web view with “no records” - but in db view, they worked fine and there were records to review. It's infuriating that blackbaud thinks we have the time do half the job in one place and then run over to where WE KNOW we can do all that we need to do in db view.

Also, I asked about Actions in the event module since we use them for EVERY event in db view (we have over 400 events run by partners annually), but not available in web view. I was told to add that to the idea bank. What? Why would it be an “idea” when it is STANDARD in db view? That's insulting and infuriating.

Joe Moretti · May 27

@Rose Dixon LOVE IT ROSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Alex Wong · May 27

@Rose Dixon
one, i'm not dismissing that webview still doesn't have all functions of dbview, and whatever isn't available will stay available in dbview. I simply want to make sure people are aware that Blackbaud is not getting rid of dbview (or part of its function) becomes availble in webview and is up to par. (i.e. Query in webview is in my opinion better, I do not experience the “slowness" any more than what dbview query would have given me (and yes, I do run some very complex query criteria/output), but I do know there are still “bug” in that area, which need to be reported on and fix by Blackbaud, which again is reason why query in dbview is still available.

Gift processing is bad in webview as it is now, I don't think anyone is arguing that, but you do not see dbview gift batching disappear yet, b/c Blackbaud know it suck. Their new gift batching is coming out Q2-3 per PUB, while I'm not holding my breath (don't need to b/c dbview gift batching still exisitng and our org's gift processor still live in dbview), it will everything that at least my org needs (i.e. grid entry being most important of all).

I guess I just have a higher tolerance to the issue you all said, as I still do feel RE NXT is the product that best fits our need (meaning we are not migrating to another CRM) and RE NXT is both webview and dbview, so whatever isn't in webview or doesn't work as well, we can still use dbview.

It is a very bad idea to get rid of database view

Comments

Categories